Popdose: A Note from Producer Tom Werman | Popdose
Patrick Kennison
· 1 year ago
Tom Werman has produced some of the greatest records of all time. Just because a few people don't like him means nothing. People need to get over themselves and realize visionaries and great musicians are and can have quirky personalities. So fucking what.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
A thought: While I see that Mr. Werman has been offended by statements made on Popdose, I find his damage control a little disingenuous. Instead of addressing his critics, the artists who formerly worked with him who have leveled these allegations, he's taken his grievance to Matthew. Now, Matthew has formed his opinion not on some perceived grudge but on the evidence placed before him, that being the testimony of Mr. Werman's former clients.
And I harbor no illusions that many of those clients are not particularly salt-of-the-earth types and have no doubt that some of their axes to grind are patently unfair. By the same token, Mr. Werman is being unfair to Matthew. Matthew is the recipient of the testimony. If the testimony is flawed, the onus is on Mr. Werman to take things up with those who made those false claims and demand retraction from them, not simply with Nikki Sixx but all the parties who have perpetrated falsehood.
Why? Because in the sphere of public life, perception is 50% of reality. If Mr. Werman hasn't taken steps to confront all the naysayers, to lighten the burden of the circumstantial evidence, then he needs to expect the overwhelming weight of circumstantial evidence must fall on the negative, and those who write on such subjects will have to take it into account. Matthew writes in entertaining fashion but the meat of his writing is based on a strong degree of source material. The source material against Mr. Werman has, let's be frank, been negative. How else could we have approached the topic? That all the criticisms are lies?
Essentially, we're the messenger. You're not happy with the message, and if you feel you have been slighted as you certainly appear to be, you need to take that up with those who have issued the message. Now you also have claimed that all this should have been aired or offered a counterpoint option, and that could have been arranged by contacting your bed & breakfast. In your defense, Mr. Werman, you're right. We should have. It's something we'll need to take greater measures to do in the future. I guarantee you, however, that most of those we contact will never get the chance to hear the offer, as it is swallowed up by publicists, agents and handlers. Cynical? Yes. But surely there's truth in that cynicism, no?
So I, as a Popdose writer and as someone defending the quality and intentions of Matthew's work, ask that you see it from his side. Your "street cred" out here is godawful. But you can put it right. The offer is open, as is the floor. Take up a Popdose column and refute the claims of your detractors. I hope you'll consider it. Otherwise, silence would only lend validity to what you feel is their slander. But I ask that you don't misdirect your cause at Mr. Bolin since, as said, it's "theirs" that informed his, not his against yours.
misterspike
· 1 year ago
Venomous much?
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
If you only have a file full of (a) and write something based on that, it's going to weigh on the side of (a). For someone to get up in arms that the final product wasn't (b), isn't so much the fault of the writer as it is the complainant who allowed the file to be flooded with (a).
It's not venomous. I'm defending the fact that, based on the information that's out there, there wasn't a vastly different way it could have been written, and as a fellow Popdose writer, I didn't find it fair that Bolin's taking such heat from reporting in the corner that was painted for him.
EightE1
· 1 year ago
That first Nugent record was a monster, and Heaven Tonight is a favorite. Jeff, I hope he takes you up on your offer. Need anything to bribe him with?
Rob EightE1
SciKikMobster
· 1 year ago
This Tom Werman guys seems ok. The real studio maniac is this guy Patrick Kennison. I have stories about him, that makes Nikki seem like a boy scout.
Patrick Kennison
· 1 year ago
Hahaha!!! I learned it all from you homie!!! When are you guys playin' again?
sdg
· 1 year ago
some band need a outside ear but some members tend too see the truth in the producers skills egos always ruin the moron members of a band
Eric S.
· 1 year ago
Let me start by saying that "Heaven Tonight" may be my favorite record of all time. As much as I like the record, I've read comments by members of Cheap Trick questioning production decisions on this album and "In Color". I'd certainly be interested in reading Mr. Werman's point of view on some of these specific projects.
To address concerns about crediting sources, I'm posting a portion of a Rick Nielsen interview that's currently up on classicrockrevisited.com.
Jeb: Tom Werman was your producer. Another legend holds that when he heard the tapes, he hated the sound and wanted you to re-record the album in the studio and put on fake applause. Is that true?
Rick: He could have said that. We asked him to go to Japan but he didn’t want to go because he was working on a Ted Nugent record. We knew it was going to get recorded no matter what. When we got back to New York, we took the tapes to Jack Douglas, who did our first record. He wasn’t the record companies choice because they thought Jack’s first record of us was too raw. That is why In Color sounds the way it does; they toned us down. When we recorded it, it sounded fine but when we left and heard the music later, there was a honky-tonk piano on "I Want You To Want Me."
Jeb: Did you really have to redo the tapes?
Rick: Not really. Budokan sounded more like our first record. Werman didn’t want to go with Douglas. It was only going to be released for the Japanese market. It is just like the photo for the cover. Robin [Zander] and Tom [Petersson] didn’t like it but they were told that it was just for Japan, so know one would ever see it.
Elaine
· 1 year ago
And how does Matthew Bolin respond to this post?
Drew Stone
· 1 year ago
I wouldn't wipe my ass with your hack website. Check your facts before you stain someone else's stellar career. Hacks.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
Where was your defense of Mr. Werman during the seven months between when the column was originally published and now? Seven months, and only now you're outraged? Thank you for not wiping your ass with our site. You have a tendency toward procrastination and, clearly, our bowels would explode waiting for you to finish up.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
I just tried wiping my ass with our website, and it didn't work. Drew, could you please come over and clean off my computer screen?
mojo
· 12 months ago
With whose website would you wipe your ass?
Frankly, I'm so glad you wouldn't with ours, because that would put a stain on MY stellar career.
Ted Duker
· 1 year ago
Tom, you've seen alot of shit and had to deal with some major assholes, it still must have been the greatest time ever. You seem like a cool dude, kick back and enjoy your b&b and fuck all the haters. #1CRUE FAN
Jhon Ackerman
· 1 year ago
Honestly, I would absolutely LOVE to spend a few hours learning from Tom Werman . . . this man has been an integral part of so many albums that I grew up listening to, it would be absolutely astounding to talk with him.
As a guy that's tried very hard for at least ten years to make the best recordings that I can for the people that I work with, I am Personally Offended that Tom Werman's credibility would be called into question.
The idea that Matthew Bolin seeks to discredit this brilliant and talented man is beyond my comprehension. You better look into your own soul Matt, because you've got some problems.
-Jhon Ackerman Producer & Engineer The Recording Zone Rustburg, VA
jefito
· 1 year ago
Matt wasn't seeking to "discredit" him. He was going off what's on the public record. I understand why you disagree with what he wrote, but I assure you, his soul is just fine.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
Jhon, I've said far too much on the subject already and your response has been civil, so I want to oblige accordingly. If the public record on you was consistently negative, and that public record has been previously vetted by editors of prestigious magazines and newspapers, the common perception would tend to coincide.
If you then turn around and challenge those magazines and newspapers, it's not that you're raking muck, it's that you are protecting your name, which you feel has been slandered. If a third party coalesces a piece based on info you chose over the years not to challenge, how could it be his fault due to your lack of vigilance?
Mr. Werman may be a great guy, he certainly is a cohesive writer, but he chose for some reason or another to allow this bad rep to amass unchecked over the years, then be upset when a third party repeated the record that has been left there. Matthew Bolin did not seek to discredit Tom Werman. Matthew Bolin formed the educated hypothesis based on mountain of stuff that had not been previously challenged. That is no Matthew Bolin's fault.
Jhon Ackerman
· 12 months ago
I suppose it could be very possible that my own response had more to do with my own experiences than it does with Matt's article and commentary. I am totally new to this "conflict" as it were, as I stumbled upon the topic while looking up information/interviews with producers like Tom Werman, Bob Rock and Mutt Lange. (still VERY MUCH looking if you have some links to offer . . . I am on a journey of "everybody else-discovery" right now. ha ha ha
As I have grown and struggled to become the "musical brain and pair of ears" that I currently am, I've been looking and exploring, trying to so be what some of those before me were, but to "seek what they sought", so to speak. Finding someone to relate to that can really sit down and give me some real vitamins has been tough sometimes.
All that to say, when I saw this criticism of Tom Werman and whatnot, I think it made me mad that a man that already did what I would like to do (and probably never will do on any grand scale) was taking a verbal beating by some of my teenage heroes . . . from Matt, as well as Nikki Sixx and whatnot.
I have alot to learn, and there seems to be no limit to how small I can truly feel when staring up at The Mountain that is the music business.
Jhon Ackerman
· 12 months ago
Wow, I had some serious typos in there, but hopefully my intentions were clear. I wanna correct it!!! :)
outsidecounsel
· 1 year ago
I for one would welcome more from this cat. He must have a ton of interesting stories, and it would be cool to hear about the technical aspects of his work with what sounds like a pretty diverse group of artists.
DavidMedsker
· 1 year ago
I would love for Tom to do a column for us. He could do an entire year on Nugent alone.
wardo
· 1 year ago
I think it's great that the little site once known as "jefitoblog" (and still bookmarked thus on my little computer) has gained such stature that somebody like Tom Werman has the time to write such a well-crafted rebuttal to a post. This is why I'll keep reading. I can only hope Mr. Werman doesn't find anything to upset him at my blog.
Darren
· 12 months ago
I remember reading Matthew's initial post on Werman and thinking, to a degree, WTF? Ultimately, though, I've read much the same information he referenced in coming to the conclusions stated in his initial post and, thus, I simply chalked his words up to "his opinion". See, Popdose is great because it isn't so much a news site (which we've already got more then enough of on ye olde interweb, in my opinion), as a gathering place for some pretty insightful writers to unleash their commentary on a variety of subjects. Perhaps the accusations of adultery were a bit much, especially if untrue. I've spoken to a few bands who worked with Werman, including members of Cheap Trick, and what they had to say about his work was mixed, to put it lightly. Truth be told, I don't think he was the right producer for Cheap Trick. To my ears, In Color is too dry, too slick; Heaven Tonight is too glossy by far, and Dream Police is over-produced. The one thing that makes those albums classic is the quality of the songwriting. It took the band working on their own (with Jack Douglas brought in to oversee mixing and overdubs) to achieve the success for which they are most remembered. Dream Police was in-the-can prior to Budokan's US release and, when released, it failed to maintain the level of success that Budokan had achieved.
If Budokan hadn't happened, Dream Police wouldn't have been half the moderate success that it was. More than likely, it would have joined Werman's previous two efforts with the band in the middle regions of the charts and the band may have very well been dropped.
The blame should not lie solely upon Werman's shoulders, though. Cheap Trick had been unhappy with In Color,. yet they worked with him again and were unhappy with Heaven Tonight, then they worked with him yet again on Dream Police. Not to be a Monday morning quarterback, but why didn't Cheap Trick work with someone else if they weren't happy with the results? Werman, after all, was a staff producer. To me, the tag "staff producer" has always been associated with sub-par results from bands who were misunderstood and/or wrongly pigeonholed by their label. Cheap Trick, from the moment they signed to Epic, were both, yet their decision to have a mere staff producer thrust upon them when each album could have been their last seems a bit careless.
While I've nothing against the man, the pile of albums with his name on them that failed to accurately capture the respective band in their true element is a large one. Despite some great material, The Producers, Hawks, and Off Broadway (to name but a few) came off sounding neutered and, unlike Cheap Trick, each of these bands ultimately fell victim to what I like to call "two-and-out syndrome"; two albums, no hits, and the boot.
Then, of course, Werman became the go-to-guy for Sunset Strip metal bands and the rest is history. All things considered, as a producer I think he makes a great bed-and-breakfast proprietor.
Still, I've got nothing against the guy, personally, and would still have killed to have been a fly on the wall during some of the sessions of which he was a vital part.
Billy Cross
· 5 months ago
Tom Werman is a refreshingly intelligent fellow who was a successful and canny producer for more years than most. His comments here are sober and well articulated. The same cannot be said for Mr. Bolin who joins the ranks of talentless journalist wannabees who try to promulgate their pathetic egos by writing about stuff they know very little. There is an old American expression: "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one". Sad that so many people can't seem to keep their opinions to themselves instead of choking the internet with idiocy.
All Comments
And I harbor no illusions that many of those clients are not particularly salt-of-the-earth types and have no doubt that some of their axes to grind are patently unfair. By the same token, Mr. Werman is being unfair to Matthew. Matthew is the recipient of the testimony. If the testimony is flawed, the onus is on Mr. Werman to take things up with those who made those false claims and demand retraction from them, not simply with Nikki Sixx but all the parties who have perpetrated falsehood.
Why? Because in the sphere of public life, perception is 50% of reality. If Mr. Werman hasn't taken steps to confront all the naysayers, to lighten the burden of the circumstantial evidence, then he needs to expect the overwhelming weight of circumstantial evidence must fall on the negative, and those who write on such subjects will have to take it into account. Matthew writes in entertaining fashion but the meat of his writing is based on a strong degree of source material. The source material against Mr. Werman has, let's be frank, been negative. How else could we have approached the topic? That all the criticisms are lies?
Essentially, we're the messenger. You're not happy with the message, and if you feel you have been slighted as you certainly appear to be, you need to take that up with those who have issued the message. Now you also have claimed that all this should have been aired or offered a counterpoint option, and that could have been arranged by contacting your bed & breakfast. In your defense, Mr. Werman, you're right. We should have. It's something we'll need to take greater measures to do in the future. I guarantee you, however, that most of those we contact will never get the chance to hear the offer, as it is swallowed up by publicists, agents and handlers. Cynical? Yes. But surely there's truth in that cynicism, no?
So I, as a Popdose writer and as someone defending the quality and intentions of Matthew's work, ask that you see it from his side. Your "street cred" out here is godawful. But you can put it right. The offer is open, as is the floor. Take up a Popdose column and refute the claims of your detractors. I hope you'll consider it. Otherwise, silence would only lend validity to what you feel is their slander. But I ask that you don't misdirect your cause at Mr. Bolin since, as said, it's "theirs" that informed his, not his against yours.
It's not venomous. I'm defending the fact that, based on the information that's out there, there wasn't a vastly different way it could have been written, and as a fellow Popdose writer, I didn't find it fair that Bolin's taking such heat from reporting in the corner that was painted for him.
Rob
EightE1
I learned it all from you homie!!!
When are you guys playin' again?
egos always ruin the moron members of a band
To address concerns about crediting sources, I'm posting a portion of a Rick Nielsen interview that's currently up on classicrockrevisited.com.
Jeb: Tom Werman was your producer. Another legend holds that when he heard the tapes, he hated the sound and wanted you to re-record the album in the studio and put on fake applause. Is that true?
Rick: He could have said that. We asked him to go to Japan but he didn’t want to go because he was working on a Ted Nugent record. We knew it was going to get recorded no matter what. When we got back to New York, we took the tapes to Jack Douglas, who did our first record. He wasn’t the record companies choice because they thought Jack’s first record of us was too raw. That is why In Color sounds the way it does; they toned us down. When we recorded it, it sounded fine but when we left and heard the music later, there was a honky-tonk piano on "I Want You To Want Me."
Jeb: Did you really have to redo the tapes?
Rick: Not really. Budokan sounded more like our first record. Werman didn’t want to go with Douglas. It was only going to be released for the Japanese market. It is just like the photo for the cover. Robin [Zander] and Tom [Petersson] didn’t like it but they were told that it was just for Japan, so know one would ever see it.
Frankly, I'm so glad you wouldn't with ours, because that would put a stain on MY stellar career.
As a guy that's tried very hard for at least ten years to make the best recordings that I can for the people that I work with, I am Personally Offended that Tom Werman's credibility would be called into question.
The idea that Matthew Bolin seeks to discredit this brilliant and talented man is beyond my comprehension. You better look into your own soul Matt, because you've got some problems.
-Jhon Ackerman
Producer & Engineer
The Recording Zone
Rustburg, VA
If you then turn around and challenge those magazines and newspapers, it's not that you're raking muck, it's that you are protecting your name, which you feel has been slandered. If a third party coalesces a piece based on info you chose over the years not to challenge, how could it be his fault due to your lack of vigilance?
Mr. Werman may be a great guy, he certainly is a cohesive writer, but he chose for some reason or another to allow this bad rep to amass unchecked over the years, then be upset when a third party repeated the record that has been left there. Matthew Bolin did not seek to discredit Tom Werman. Matthew Bolin formed the educated hypothesis based on mountain of stuff that had not been previously challenged. That is no Matthew Bolin's fault.
As I have grown and struggled to become the "musical brain and pair of ears" that I currently am, I've been looking and exploring, trying to so be what some of those before me were, but to "seek what they sought", so to speak. Finding someone to relate to that can really sit down and give me some real vitamins has been tough sometimes.
All that to say, when I saw this criticism of Tom Werman and whatnot, I think it made me mad that a man that already did what I would like to do (and probably never will do on any grand scale) was taking a verbal beating by some of my teenage heroes . . . from Matt, as well as Nikki Sixx and whatnot.
I have alot to learn, and there seems to be no limit to how small I can truly feel when staring up at The Mountain that is the music business.
If Budokan hadn't happened, Dream Police wouldn't have been half the moderate success that it was. More than likely, it would have joined Werman's previous two efforts with the band in the middle regions of the charts and the band may have very well been dropped.
The blame should not lie solely upon Werman's shoulders, though. Cheap Trick had been unhappy with In Color,. yet they worked with him again and were unhappy with Heaven Tonight, then they worked with him yet again on Dream Police. Not to be a Monday morning quarterback, but why didn't Cheap Trick work with someone else if they weren't happy with the results? Werman, after all, was a staff producer. To me, the tag "staff producer" has always been associated with sub-par results from bands who were misunderstood and/or wrongly pigeonholed by their label. Cheap Trick, from the moment they signed to Epic, were both, yet their decision to have a mere staff producer thrust upon them when each album could have been their last seems a bit careless.
While I've nothing against the man, the pile of albums with his name on them that failed to accurately capture the respective band in their true element is a large one. Despite some great material, The Producers, Hawks, and Off Broadway (to name but a few) came off sounding neutered and, unlike Cheap Trick, each of these bands ultimately fell victim to what I like to call "two-and-out syndrome"; two albums, no hits, and the boot.
Then, of course, Werman became the go-to-guy for Sunset Strip metal bands and the rest is history. All things considered, as a producer I think he makes a great bed-and-breakfast proprietor.
Still, I've got nothing against the guy, personally, and would still have killed to have been a fly on the wall during some of the sessions of which he was a vital part.