Popdose: Bottom Feeders: The Ass End of the ’80s, Part 20
scrumble
· 1 year ago
"The Only Flame in Town" holds up better than people thought it would at the time, although you have to remember the song was seen as a cynical attempt to give Costello another hit in the vein of "Everyday I Write the Book" (and for duet partner Daryl Hall to desperately regain some credibility which he's since regained) ... his career was basically written off by reviewers. So, he was deliberately trying to compete with Jack Wagners and failed, but after the mid-'80s it was insane to think anyone like Elvis would even try doing that.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
Pardon me, Scrumble? "[A cynical attempt] for duet partner Daryl Hall to desperately regain some credibility which he's since regained"?!?!?!?
I can't believe my fellow Popdosers have let this comment stand unremarked-upon for 11 hours (this site is a den of H&O fandom), so I'll bite: What the hell are you talking about? In 1984 Daryl Hall was on top of the world! He and the mustachioed wonder were in the middle of becoming the single biggest act of the first half of the '80s--and most of their music was well-liked by critics as well. (Except for, perhaps, "Adult Education," which I will grant you was the last H&O single released before "The Only Flame in Town" was released.) "The Only Flame" shared the charts for awhile with "Out of Touch," which was H&O's 5th Number One single of the decade.
Beyond that, Elvis (who was pretty much always "cynical," but no more on that song than others) would gladly get into a bar fight with you for even mentioning him and Jack Wagner in the same sentence. No, "Punch the Clock" and "Goodbye Cruel World" didn't represent Elvis at his peak, but he rebounded nicely with his next three albums starting with the excellent "Blood and Chocolate."
scrumble
· 1 year ago
Wait, it wasn't me who mentioned Jack Wagner relative to EC. And, by 1986 it was the beginning of the post-MTV era where these kind of hit singles weren't pursued.
Of course Hall wanted to be seen as more credible and artistically inclined than he was at the time. He still does, although things have leveled off a bit with time. Such was the trade-off in appealing to housewives and their kids. "The Only Flame" is OK kitsch now but it was definitely savaged at the time.
jerm
· 1 year ago
Daryl Hall also sang background on INXS' "Original Sin (Dream On)" which pre-dated "The Only Flame In Town" by a few months. INXS and Elvis Costello were considered "alternative" back then. Artists only college radio and those rare "modern rock" stations (KROQ, for example) would touch. Apparently, Daryl's a huge Elvis C. fan. Not sure how the colloboration came about, though...
That' s not the first time Hall has been paired up with a member of the rock underground. His first solo album, SACRED SONGS, was produced by the ultra-avant garde, Robert Fripp. It's a great record and highly recommended.
H&O were never considered "cool" by snobby, rock press during their commerical heydey in the 80s. Nowadays, those same critics are realizing how truly great H&O were. Me thinks they are just trying to be ironic, like the rock press tends to do.
I firmly believe that if H&O were black they would be deemed musical geniuses. But since they were goofy white guys doing "black" music, they got written off.
And it's a shame because when it comes to extremely well-crafted pop/soul...no one comes close.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
You're right, Dave is the original culprit behind the Jack Wagner reference, so my apologies for that. (Though your reference was a bit meaner than Dave's, as I can't imagine Elvis ever saw himself as "competing" for chart positions with the Jack Wagners of the world. I would guess (hope?) he saw "Every Day I Write the Book" and "The Only Flame in Town" as genre exercises, not blatant single attempts.)
Responding to both your "tradeoff" comment and jerm's comment about the press regarding H&O as "goofy white guys doing 'black' music": I will certainly grant that H&O were hardly considered "cool" by the music press, and I do think Hall always has carried something of a chip on his shoulder over not being hailed as a "major rock artist" so much as a "pop craftsman." But he wanted that recognition not only for "Sacred Songs" and his side projects but for his H&O work as well. I certainly don't think he believed himself to be writing songs for "housewives and their kids" (ouch!).
All of that said, as I remember it there was a decent amount of rock-crit respect for H&O's (Hall's especially) ability to make a record like "I Can't Go for That" or "One on One" that could climb high up the R&B charts in a post-disco era when crossover in either direction was difficult. And while there was less of a tendency back then (as compared to now) for critics to hail an artist/album/song's quality as "pop," H&O usually got a decent amount of credit in the press for their success in honing the sound they'd been crafting since the '70s into the hitmaking machine it became in the early '80s.
So, to the extent that Hall was disappointed by his press treatment, he really should have sucked it up and resumed counting his money. Hopefully he's doing that now while waiting for the RnR Hall of Fame to call.
steed
· 1 year ago
Hey, there's a period there. That's two different sentences. No need for Elvis to kick my ass.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
A technicality. I gave Elvis your address. He and Patrick Swayze (if he's healthy) will be over soon to open up a can of whoop-ass.
EricL
· 1 year ago
You just pointed out why reviewers and hipsters of the day so often miss the boat on albums and songs that are great in hindsight. Instead of listening to the music and letting the album or song speak for itself they try to decide the motivations of the performer or, even worse, listening to what the artist has to say about the recording before hearing it. The only thing that matters is the music being worthwhile. Everything else is secondary.
Thus, to make excuses for reviewers being wrong about a song due to the prevailing wisdom of the day is fallacy. When a reviewer listens with open ears they are be better (not always, but better) able to realize that the music is quality and will stand up.
To sum up, if Elvis Costello chooses to make a great album of modern pop as it will still be a great album of pop no matter how shocking or what his motivation.
jbacardi
· 1 year ago
American Dream was a CSN and Y album, so as a Young fan I'm a little surprised you didn't at least like the homespun-sounding "This Old House"...
steed
· 1 year ago
I can understand where you're coming from. The album is so bad that I've just completely erased it from the record. And I'm more than happy to own a record for that one deep cut that's amazing, but this whole thing just sounds like a throw away to me.
WHarrisBullzEye
· 1 year ago
Hallelujah! I've been looking for an MP3 of "War Games" for as long as I've had a computer, since "Allies" is cost-prohibitive to own. I still love this song, '80s synth sound and all. I'm also glad to have "Got It Made," too, since I have long since sold my copy of "American Dream." (Actually, I liked that album a lot better than some people did; it just didn't survive a purge several years back when I was in dire need of funds.)
The Julian Cope and Elvis Costello songs are among my favorite of those artists' respective singles. Granted, Mr. Cope has a lot less to choose from, but the compliment remains the same nonetheless.
scrumble
· 1 year ago
This seems an essential read in conjunction with this series (or this site):
I just read that article--it's like an emotional roller coaster. Now I know why I've only heard "Buffalo Stance" on the radio once in 20 years...
Ted
· 1 year ago
Are you sure you don't want to revise the "worst song" entry? I mean, I could easily sit down and listen to CSN&Y three times in a row than having to endure one listen of Al Corley.
steed
· 1 year ago
You know - I don't hate the Al Corley track. It certainly isn't good - but "Got it Made" is so disappointing to me!
E
· 1 year ago
Is it worth noting that per Wikipedia, Harold Faltermeyer was a co-writer?
gary lucy
· 1 year ago
Quick Robert Cray fact that everybody probably already knows but I just found out and still find fascinating: you can see him in "Animal House" as one of Otis Day & the Knights.
el bandito
· 1 year ago
Allies has some great things on it - "He Played Real Good" is awesome - especially considering the state Cros was in at the time. Also has a good version of "Blackbird". American Dreams really is bad - "Feel Your Love" is the only thing close to real on that album. The version of "Got it Made" on the box set is almost redeeming...but not enough for the pass. But let's remember CSN had some good 80's out put too - "Wasted On the Way", "Southern Cross" etc. so the decade wasn't a total wash.
agitatedstate
· 1 year ago
I believe that CS&N's "Daylight Again" features none other than Art Garfunkel singing in place of David Crosby on a few tracks. That's right: Crosby, Stills, Nash and Garfunkel!
Malchus
· 1 year ago
I strongly disagree about the CSNY song. There are two, Neil Young penned songs that are far superior to "Glad..." "This Old House" is a gentle, poignant song that was obviously influenced by Young's Farm Aid work, and "Feel Your Love" is one of the finest love songs Neil has written. The rest of the record is crap, but those two songs are worth seeking out and downloading from iTunes or Amazon.
flaregun
· 1 year ago
Grabbed the third best song on your BF countdown, the Robt Cray tune “Don’t Be Afraid of the Dark”, as I already had the Elvis and Julian Cope songs. The rest are meh.
All Comments
I can't believe my fellow Popdosers have let this comment stand unremarked-upon for 11 hours (this site is a den of H&O fandom), so I'll bite: What the hell are you talking about? In 1984 Daryl Hall was on top of the world! He and the mustachioed wonder were in the middle of becoming the single biggest act of the first half of the '80s--and most of their music was well-liked by critics as well. (Except for, perhaps, "Adult Education," which I will grant you was the last H&O single released before "The Only Flame in Town" was released.) "The Only Flame" shared the charts for awhile with "Out of Touch," which was H&O's 5th Number One single of the decade.
Beyond that, Elvis (who was pretty much always "cynical," but no more on that song than others) would gladly get into a bar fight with you for even mentioning him and Jack Wagner in the same sentence. No, "Punch the Clock" and "Goodbye Cruel World" didn't represent Elvis at his peak, but he rebounded nicely with his next three albums starting with the excellent "Blood and Chocolate."
Of course Hall wanted to be seen as more credible and artistically inclined than he was at the time. He still does, although things have leveled off a bit with time. Such was the trade-off in appealing to housewives and their kids. "The Only Flame" is OK kitsch now but it was definitely savaged at the time.
That' s not the first time Hall has been paired up with a member of the rock underground. His first solo album, SACRED SONGS, was produced by the ultra-avant garde, Robert Fripp. It's a great record and highly recommended.
H&O were never considered "cool" by snobby, rock press during their commerical heydey in the 80s. Nowadays, those same critics are realizing how truly great H&O were. Me thinks they are just trying to be ironic, like the rock press tends to do.
I firmly believe that if H&O were black they would be deemed musical geniuses. But since they were goofy white guys doing "black" music, they got written off.
And it's a shame because when it comes to extremely well-crafted pop/soul...no one comes close.
Responding to both your "tradeoff" comment and jerm's comment about the press regarding H&O as "goofy white guys doing 'black' music": I will certainly grant that H&O were hardly considered "cool" by the music press, and I do think Hall always has carried something of a chip on his shoulder over not being hailed as a "major rock artist" so much as a "pop craftsman." But he wanted that recognition not only for "Sacred Songs" and his side projects but for his H&O work as well. I certainly don't think he believed himself to be writing songs for "housewives and their kids" (ouch!).
All of that said, as I remember it there was a decent amount of rock-crit respect for H&O's (Hall's especially) ability to make a record like "I Can't Go for That" or "One on One" that could climb high up the R&B charts in a post-disco era when crossover in either direction was difficult. And while there was less of a tendency back then (as compared to now) for critics to hail an artist/album/song's quality as "pop," H&O usually got a decent amount of credit in the press for their success in honing the sound they'd been crafting since the '70s into the hitmaking machine it became in the early '80s.
So, to the extent that Hall was disappointed by his press treatment, he really should have sucked it up and resumed counting his money. Hopefully he's doing that now while waiting for the RnR Hall of Fame to call.
Thus, to make excuses for reviewers being wrong about a song due to the prevailing wisdom of the day is fallacy. When a reviewer listens with open ears they are be better (not always, but better) able to realize that the music is quality and will stand up.
To sum up, if Elvis Costello chooses to make a great album of modern pop as it will still be a great album of pop no matter how shocking or what his motivation.
The Julian Cope and Elvis Costello songs are among my favorite of those artists' respective singles. Granted, Mr. Cope has a lot less to choose from, but the compliment remains the same nonetheless.
http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/200...