DISQUS

Popdose: Rock Court: The People vs. Elton John

  • rahulgupta · 6 months ago
    Sorry, Jeff. I had to vote with the defense.
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    You like show tunes. I knew you would.
  • Annie Logue · 6 months ago
    I'm not ashamed to say that I tear up every time I hear the Princess Di song.
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    Me too, but you probably aren't weeping for the disappearance of Elton's talent.
  • Michael · 6 months ago
    I'm sorry, but comparing "Circle of Life" to “Your Song” and “Don’t Let the Sun Go Down On Me"? Have you lost your mind? Guilty as charged!
  • dslifton · 6 months ago
    Jason's argument works against him here. The point isn't that he wrote a fairly decent song that resonated with a lot of people, but that he did it by recycling hits he made 20 years before!

    He's always done that. I mean, let's count how many times he's used the same arpeggiated chords, even on his best songs. Can anybody actually tell the difference between, say, Levon, Tiny Dancer, Mona Lisas And Mad Hatters, and Your Song by the first notes? And that's from his most CREATIVE period.
  • ozarkmatt · 6 months ago
    Now that's a good show guys.

    I'm gonna have to side with the defense on this one. Of course, I'm the guy who thinks "2 Low for Zero" is a classic album. I bought "Reg Strikes Back" from the record store I worked at even though I could have taken the store sample copy because nobody else wanted it.

    I really haven't paid attention to Elton since "The One" album (which I also enjoyed), but now, thanks to the defense arguments, I guess I have a few purchases to make.
  • dslifton · 6 months ago
    Jason's was better written, but Fuckface Jeff's argument was correct. Elton has been cruising on his name for 30 years. Anything worthwhile he's done since then has been luck.
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    It was better written -- I've been telling him that since the first time I read it yesterday. The prosecution is always going to be at a disadvantage in this series.
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    While I disagree about the prosecution being at a disadvantage, may I remind the fuckface prosecution that counsel is not permitted to discuss the trial with the jury?
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    The defense is permitted to kiss the prosecution's ass!
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    Objection!
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    Overruled!
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    FUCK!
  • AMD · 6 months ago
    I am as guilty of being in love with horrible kitsch as the next man, but even I cannot abide by Elton John's post 1984 output. For Nikita, It's No Sacrifice and the Princess In The Wind rejig, Elton John deserves to be banished to Elba. Guilty!
  • DwDunphy · 6 months ago
    There was a time when Elton had a #1 song per year, and the song deserved it. After awhile though, it got to where it seemed he was pushed to the top just for old times sake. "Yeah, this song is a total dolphin abortion, but it's Elton! C'mon. C'mon! Be cool for once."

    The last Elton CD I purchased was Made In England which is passable on the right day, but dreadful on the wrong day.
  • Matt · 6 months ago
    I'm with the prosecution on this one. Three words - "Circle of Life." I'm coming to Manhattan, and I'm going to go see The Lion King? Nah.

    And you used a song called "Birds" in your argument.

    It makes my music collection seem more manly. I thank you for that.

    I'll still send you that Richard Marx though.
  • DwDunphy · 6 months ago
    If I go to Manhattan to see The Lion King, well, I'm never going to see The Lion King. That would indicate I have disposable income, for heaven's sake. We can't have that.

    But if I did, I'd still plug my ears for "Circle Of Life." It's a propaganda anthem for Disney and Disney-related paraphernalia, gee-gaws, and tchotchkes.
  • David_E · 6 months ago
    So, wondering ... where do the esteemed barristers place "The Thom Bell Sessions" on the timeline? Melodic, punchy, joyful and recorded in '77? Or sell-out, trivial, outsourced and released in '79?

    As Exhibit B, it was curiously missing from both your arguments ...
  • DavidMedsker · 6 months ago
    I never liked "Philadelphia Freedom," for what it's worth.
  • DwDunphy · 6 months ago
    I'm more an "Asbury Park Indentured Servitude" man myself.
  • BobCashill · 6 months ago
    All I can say is, this got me listening to Elton John again. If one were to add in his largely undistinguished Broadway scores for LESTAT and BILLY ELLIOT, I'd have to side, reluctantly, with Fuc...I mean, Jeff.
  • DavidMedsker · 6 months ago
    Very tempted to convict, but I can't, for three reasons: "I Guess That's Why They Call It the Blues," "This Train Don't Stop Here Anymore," and "Blue Eyes." Besides, had Elton continued to make Yellow Brick Road-style records in the '80s, he would have been branded a dinosaur and shown the door. You want to disagree, but in your heart you know it's true.
  • OJ Incandenza · 6 months ago
    If I may:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAWF-b4voYQ

    There is a moment at the end - right around 4.23-4.25, precisely - that has always encapsulated for me the depths to which Sir Elton sank.
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    Why, just because he ran up the keyboard? I always thought that part fit the song's outro well. Also, the song is in A minor but makes very good use of an A major chord in the verse.

    Wanna hear a great solo version of that song?

    http://tinyurl.com/r2cbea
  • OJ Incandenza · 6 months ago
    If it were a proper piano, it might have come off as one of his better 80's moments (along with, let's say, "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues" and the bizarre video for "I'm Still Standing").

    But what's with the digital piano? He's Elton freakin' John and all of a sudden he can't spring for a grand piano? Was he temporarily possessed by John Tesh? Restless legs syndrome? Even if it is appropriately 80's, it's just ... wrong.
  • ShalimarBojangles · 6 months ago
    Agreed, Jason - I've always loved that chord change, and this is one of Elton's most under-rated 80s tyoones.
  • steed · 6 months ago
    It's all about "A Word In Spanish" for me.

    There clearly is no doubt that I could be on any side but the defense here. I'm going to listen to "Wrap Her Up" on a loop for a while.
  • Geoff · 6 months ago
    "A Word In Spanish" is a great piece of evidence for the defense, as are "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again", "Little Jeannie", "Moma Can't Buy You Love" (outstanding!), "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues", "I'm Still Standing" (very good), "Blue Eyes", "Empty Garden", "Sad Songs" (barely makes the cut), and almost everything on "Songs from the West Coast". All and all enough to cast a shadow of a doubt on the prosecution's case.

    As soon as he released "Rock of the Westies" Elton was on a "show me" basis with me. Now THAT LP was worthy of a rock court case all by itself, taking advantage of his then peerless reputation to foist a clunker off on the public. It entered the LP charts at #1 -- I think only "Captain Fantastic" had accomplished that feat previously -- well before that became routine for big name releases with lots of advanced publicity.

    Getting back to the subject at hand: After "Westies" Elton was just another big name has-been until he proved otherwise. Sadly, he never has proved it. But he has come out with plenty of listenable and even good songs, as listed above. I ignore the many of his songs I do not like, e.g., the bombastic "Lion King" soundtrack songs.

    If pop/rock stars could be convicted of being over the hill the rock court jails would be full. If they could be convicted of trading on their reputation or celebrity to overcome a deficiency of talent, many a legend and upcoming teen fave would never release another song. Elton just does not have the talent any more to fill up his releases. Too bad. That is what buying MP3's a song at a time is good for.

    p.s. Notwithstanding all of the above, if you had caught me after the release of the 1997/Princess Di version of "Candle in the Wind" I might well of voted to convict. Only time and not having heard it in a decade have erased that abomination enough from my memory to leave psychic room for forgiveness.
  • JonCummings · 6 months ago
    What's the standard in Rock Court -- preponderance of the evidence, or beyond a reasonable doubt?

    To me, this is a very close call--but in the end my biggest complaint with Elton is that his music has gotten insanely boring over the last 20 years, and while that's distressing, it's hardly a crime of "Disco Duck" proportions. I mean, "Sacrifice" and "The One" and "Something About the Way You Look Tonight" and any number of other late-period Elton AC hits make me want to slit my wrists, they're so dull--but if you want to change my vote on this jury to "guilty," you're going to have to name me five still-recording artists with careers as long as Elton's whose recent work ISN'T insanely boring.

    Plus, I still like "Nobody Wins," from The Fox. And "Mama Can't Buy You Love." And Elton is always good for the occasional raging-queen hissy fit, which is nice. (Though he's also responsible for that Sasson commercial from 1985. Maybe I WILL switch my vote, just for that.)
  • dslifton · 6 months ago
    I was looking for the Sassoon commercial on YouTube when Jeff was tweeting his pain, but I couldn't find it. That means that even YouTube is siding with the prosecution here.
  • James · 6 months ago
    I cannot vote for anything but the prosecution. I love me some early Elton but even then he and Bernie kind of descended in to the Schmaltzy side of life. I happily admit that That's why they call it the Blues is a badass song, but pretty much anything post '78 is disposable.
  • CG · 6 months ago
    Great feature, I look forward to future installments. And future use of gratuitous profanity :)
  • RoyBatty · 6 months ago
    This is a great feature. Insanely entertaining. I wanna convict based soley on "That's What Friends Are For" and "Who Wears These Shoes?". But then I remember liking "I Guess That's Why..." and the last three albums were pretty damn good. Hmmm. Hung Jury?
  • D-Pete · 6 months ago
    Jason, you should've pulled out "Kiss the Bride" to really nail home your argument. That one sounded good back in '83, and it holds up today.

    This is a great idea for a Popdose feature -- and I love that "Fuckface" is one of the tags for this article. I can't wait for the trial of Stevie Wonder. That's gotta be on the docket, no?
  • jhallCORE · 6 months ago
    Great feature and look forward to more of these. I agree with D-Pete that Stevie Wonder would be a good candidate for this.
  • EightE1 · 6 months ago
    You should be the jury foreman/chief apologist for Prince, who's another natural topic.
  • Curt Shannon · 6 months ago
    I voted to acquit, because even ONE good song ("Guess...the Blues) supports the defense's case based upon the stated charges. But I would change my vote if the prosecution can prove that Elton released a Christmas album...
  • Eric S. · 6 months ago
  • Curt Shannon · 6 months ago
    ...Pulling out the guillotine...
  • EightE1 · 6 months ago
    The One was the last record of his I bought (the title track is over-the-top awesome). Really, it's the last one I had to buy, cuz the wife just loves him. I haven't heard anything since '91 or '92 that has really moved me. I do have a playlist of about 30 of those 70s songs that I go back to repeatedly, and Madman, Tumbleweed, and the one with "Your Song" get spins at least once a year.

    I side with the prosecution.

    Rob
    EightE1
  • Old_Davy · 6 months ago
    Point for the prosecution: Elton's toupee.

    Point for the defense: Elton's sense of humor about his toupee.

    I vote to acquit based solely on "Blessed" from the "Made In England" album, one of his most beautiful songs ever.
  • Jonathan · 6 months ago
    I grew up buying Elton's 80's output, not having heard much of his 70's work at first. Am I unusual in thinking that The Fox and Too Low For Zero are good pretty much all the way through? Will I become a co-defendant if I admit that the songs "Chloe" and "One More Arrow" still make me cry when I listen to those albums?

    A few songs stand out after those albums. "Stone's Throw From Hurtin'" from Sleeping with the Past is one of my all-time favorite Elton tracks--a totally addictive melody that I rank alongside his best work from the 70's. (Hmm, I seem to really like Elton's falsetto.) I also put "Sad Songs (Say So Much)" in that class. Other favorites are "Breaking Hearts (Ain't What It Used to Be)", "Whitewash County", and "Postcards from Richard Nixon". I think there's enough evidence for an acquittal here.

    Unfortunately, I'll probably go to prison alongside the defendant for loving "Satellite" from Ice On Fire.
  • dslifton · 6 months ago
    By the way, how much does Elton's credibility suffer because of Sinead O'Connor's cover of Sacrifice?
  • jefito · 6 months ago
    Not enough, apparently. Stupid jury.
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    Insulting the jury is a great way to get them to side with you, counsel.
  • RoyBatty · 6 months ago
    Not sure how one can blame Reg for that one. But I love that cover. So blame me...
  • forwardgirl · 6 months ago
    Ah, Jefito, we're just a bunch of sentimental dopes...
  • John · 6 months ago
    Guess that's why they call it the blues, i want love, this train don't stop, are the only good songs he's done since 75/76. Dare i say the end came with don't go breaking my heart? No i'd better not, but it's still a good song
  • 70srocked · 6 months ago
    Being introduced to the site and seeing this post, I had to comment and subscribe because your site is great. With that said, Jason wins this hands down. An Elton fan since the early '70s, I've been a fan through the years...the mid-'70s peak through today. It's without a doubt that Jeff makes some often funny arguments but they are mis-guided wrong.

    Any artist, who has a deep catalog such as Elton will have peaks and valleys. The point is that it is...deep. He and Taupin have never regarded the early material as anything more than pop songs, much of it disposable. And due to Taupin's usually incredible and thoughtful lyrics, the superb production of Gus Dudgeon and a top notch band (not to mention Paul Buckmaster's arrangements on the early releases), the perception is that Elton is in the "heavy weight" division of singer songwriters. It's only since he got sober that his songwriting has matched early years ('70-'75) and consider maturing and realizing that he has to be more focused on the songwriting craft than in the early days when everything was so easy and free flowing.

    It's simply not fair to compare '70-'76 to anything after that because nothing stayed the same. Different lyricists, band members and producers will produce different results. Which is why Too Low For Zero remains such a high point in his early '80s output because everything returned to the team that produced the classic sounds san Gus Dudgeon.

    The late '70s produced his worst album of the decade with Victim of Love. Thankfully, he only sang on it and not responsible for the songwriting, etc. Yet, he sanctioned it and well, everybody else had disco hits so why not try it!

    The '80s kicked off with one of his best songs to ever recall the mid-'70s sound with Little Jeannie. That could have come off 1972's Don't Shoot Me. Most of what was leftover from that album, 21 AT 33 will hardly be listed in the canons of great EJ songs but Sartorial Eloquence and Chasing The Crown at least shows he was really trying.

    The rest of that decade continued with a mix of traditional pop/rock efforts that, like anyone else, had hits and misses. Restless from 1984's Breaking Hearts was great as well as In Neon from that same album. Yes, I can live without Did He Shoot Her but the song has a nice groove.

    Ice On Fire/Leather Jackets do leave a lot to be desired and to put in context, he wasn't doing all that well mentally. But there are some moments not to be entirely dismissed...say This Town or Slow Rivers or Paris or dare I say it, Nikita!

    The later efforts, Reg Strikes Back and particularly Sleeping With The Past showed brilliant determination to get somewhat serious about his songwriting and not just toss off another album to meet a recording contract. He tried to change his sound to match the times and had he stayed making the same sounding album over and over, he would have been washed up a long time ago. Can you really admit that I Don't Wanna, as dated as it sounds now, isn't a terrrific pop single...for the Summer of '88? Can you?

    The '90s produced three proper studio albums, The One, Made In England and The Big Picture. Now it's clear that he's aging a bit and things are settling down into a mid-tempo feel. And Chris Thomas, who has been his longest serving producer since Dudgeon, really likes to muddy the water and give each song a wall of sound aura that didn't serve them to well. Sure, the title track for The One benefits from this high gloss/tech production, but the rest of the album couldn't get out from under it's own weight. But there are some very well written songs....including The Last Song...one of his most heartfelt and gut wrenching efforts of his career.

    The Big Picture suffered from the same prescription as The One, make everything sound BIG. Here, the lyrics were the biggest obstacle - Taupin seemed to have run out of ideas and most of the songs are full of platitiudes and cliches. Though the title track and If the River Can Bend were fantastic.

    That leaves Made In England as the other album of the '90s that really did try to capture that classic sound thanks to Greg Penny's masterful and stripped down production. This one has many gems.

    So that leaves the millenium, of which he's released three studio albums and two of them are instant classics, Songs from the West Coast from 2001 and 2006's The Captain and The Kid. Elton and Taupin are back in the saddle determined more than ever to treat each new project with care and set high standards for their efforts instead of settling for whatever came out.

    Hmmm...let's see...throw in four Broadway musicals, each of completely different styles and storylines, to add to the already rich catalog and we've come to an artist who has clearly stayed within his element and is not trying to keep up with the Joneses. And thank God for that!

    Elton John remains a passionate artist and gifted songwriter. Who cares that he's never written another Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding...but he's maintained a career in which his approach has pretty much stayed the same: give him the lyrics and he'll put a tune around it. Sure, it may not be as inventive as before but hell, after 30 years, who is? The times are indeed a changing and he's not the hungry rock artist he once was but the passion to craft great pop songs is still there. His aforementioned Broadway shows demonstrates that perfectly...yes, even the Lion King.

    Also, let's remember that Elton's British and he going to do some goofy things just for the sake of doing goofy things once in a while (anyone recall Solar Prestige A Gammon or Big Dipper?)...sure, Candy By The Pound may sound like he wrote it in his sleep but if we're honest with ourselves, so does Island Girl and probably others that are great and written very quickly as well.

    I rest my case.
  • jasonhare · 6 months ago
    Damn, I should have had you write the defense argument! Thanks for a great comment, hope you stick around and read more of Popdose.
  • 70srocked · 6 months ago
    Thanks! Yes, I find the website to be a lot of fun and I hope to post on other topics as well. This one, as you can tell though, really pushes my button because, without going into it again, I have a hard time accepting the argument that Elton has collasped into substandard material since the hey day (and I also realize this is in fun as well).
  • Geoff · 6 months ago
    Yeah, put "70srocked" on retainer as an Elton expert witness!
  • Cat · 6 months ago
    I propose we change the name of this web site to www.tastelessand insensitivebunch.com. For once in your life, please go to an intelligent web site en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elton_John and learn about this man who devoted his entire life to music. He is a perfectionist, overachiever genius, who has never stopped growing. He has developed into a complete artist, he can play, write, and compose it all, classical, jazz, folk, rock, pop, and all the rest. He writes extremely successful musicals, the new series “Spectacle” on Sundance channel is a breath of fresh air. He loves, knows to appreciate, and is interested all aspects of art, including dance, photography, painting, sculpture, and probably more. He is constantly searching for new young artists with real talent, and helps promote them.
    Furthermore, he is a philanthropist, giving and generous. He sure does not belong in this dumb court. He certainly is not stuck in the 1970’s, he keeps moving forward in all directions, because he is full of ideas, talent, eager to try new things, his energy is unbelievable. May be it is his incredible success which is bothering you all.
  • nix · 6 months ago
    Elton was always great, but some fuckfaces really think that only good music is those with "rock" in itself. :p
    The truth is that Elton was never really a rock artists. He is classical musician with many different elements and flavors in his music- rock, pop, blues, gospel, country, etc.
    IMHO, Elton was better and better every year and I would put songs like IGTWTCIT Blues, The One and Believe together with Rocket Man, Your Song and Philadelphia Freedom.
    Sure, there were some weak albums like Leather Jackets and 21 At 33, but even those would be consider masterpieces if they were by someone else- Prince, Madonna or Michael Jackson for example. You can also find weak albums in "classic era" like Rock Of The Westies for example.
    The true strength of Elton's music lies in his ability to compose a song and bring those songs to life. Anybody who is only capable for rewriting stupid reviews and repetiting cliches like "only Elton's 1970-1976 era is good) does not deserve to talk or listen to Elton's music. Thank You!
  • Elaine · 6 months ago
    Club at the end of the Street: I swear that "keyboard" riff sounds like it was played on a Casio in someone's living room. "Lord have mercy, can't sit still?" Yes we can. Wiki says it's considered to be a LGBT anthem since the sexes of the lovers in the song are never mentioned. Oh, brother.
  • Brian · 6 months ago
    Made in England = chock full of classics with a couple of clunkers.
    Songs from the West Coast = Modern Classic
    Billy Elliott = redemption of Lion King
    2009 = still doing it full on live

    case closed
  • Elaine · 6 months ago
    Billy Elliott confuses me. The one time I saw those three kids perform (on a morning TV show) they kind of stunk. I'm no expert but I can tell when three dancers aren't in sync and are exhibiting bad technique. Maybe they were just having an off morning.

    Incidentally, Billly Elliott won 10 of the 15 Tonys for which it was nominated last night. Best Score by Sir Elton was not one of them.