Popdose: The VP Debate: Palinpalooza (Wink, Wink) | Popdose
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
I get very, very sad the day after these things. The reason why is because I have totally gone in the tank with the thought that Biden won, that he proved to be more knowledgeable than Palin and presented himself with a more professional, serious demeanor. The pundits seemed to agree on that and I thought, hey, good news.
Then, the day after, television and radio trot out the "man on the street" commentaries and the public fall over themselves to praise Palin. "She thinks like we think" and "She speaks for us" and "She's the voice of the common person." Then I start wondering, if I sharpen up my coffee spork the right way, this could all be over with right now.
Jamielyon
· 1 year ago
I thought one of the more interesting Non-answers that Gov. Palin gave was in regard to her actual Achilles heel versus her perceived Achilles heel. By not answering the question and instead listing her qualifications, it left some question in my mind as to whether she has that Bush-like inablity to see any self-dficiencies, or if she just didn't know what an Achilles heel is.
Alicia
· 1 year ago
The trouble is, it doesn't really matter if she answered the questions or not. What matters is she had enough moments where she looked and sounded good so that if you're a person who didn't watch the debate, but are tuning in today to catch the highlights, it looks like she gave a strong performance and that she won. I think that was their strategy, hence all the mugging and winking for the camera.
jefito
· 1 year ago
I thought the same thing as I watched it. When she hadn't gone off the rails after half an hour or so, I knew the narrative was going to be "she didn't totally fuck up -- wow!"
On the bright side, the post-debate polls broke totally Biden's way. Just because she cleared the bar doesn't mean she won.
Allen
· 1 year ago
Nice coverage, guys. Let me just add something: Biden won the debate hands down. Why? Because they both had jobs they had to NOT do. He had to not come across as a bully, smarmy or sexist and a know-it-all. She had to not turn into one of Mudd's androids when presented with flawed logic by Mr. Spock. And they needed to take the game to their opponent. Done and done. I could go on and on about how badly Palin did (really? McClellan?!? Really????) but let's focus on the two real moments of the debate. The "you're no John Kennedy" moments. The ones that are always best served when they are organic and not rehearsed or just semi-rehearesed. There were two. And at least one of them will live on for a long time, if not ever. The first was when Biden took the air out of the Maverick talk. At first I thought it was too late and now I realize that it was perfectly timed. After she used that buzzword 9 times he took it away from them. Probably forever for a lot of people. And she of course, had no retort since she would prefer to speak to americans without the filter of the media, which means, of course, scripted. The other was the most real moment of the entire campaign. When Biden, speaking about being a single father after the tragedy of losing his wife and child in an accident, even 30 years hence, seemed honest and real and brought a tear to this father's eye. And it made the hoisting of retardo-prop at the end of the show seem callous, calculated and just plain sad pandering. (By the way. Why the fuck isn't that kid in bed???) So here's the way I basically described what is going to happen on my succinctly semi-genius blog, Septenary.
"If I was a money man in the evangelical wing of the republican party I would be asking her to a) pull away from John McCain a bit and b) run for Ted Stevens senate seat. I imagine that there are a lot of gay-bashing, ethnic-hating, simple minded, gun-caressing republicans that see her as their bright and shining future.* Okay. I don't think a) she will make it for 8 years in the senate let alone win that seat and b) the evangelical, hate spewing segment of the right will even exist in 8 years. Because make no bones about it:
The next president will be president for 8 years."
Trust me. McCain is going to start showing up (or his money, at least) in Oregon and Minnesota and North Carolina as a bid to hold those precious senate seats. The RNC has given up the ghost and McCain knows he's the loser. But he'll game it for 30 days beacuse it's politics and ya never know.
But he knows.
David_E
· 1 year ago
Any smart thing you wrote was wiped away by "retardo prop."
Grow up.
Allen
· 1 year ago
I would love to retract it but, truth is, that is how they are treating that kid. They aren't being responsible parents, they are lifting him up, in front of cameras, with hot flashing lights everywhere and sending a callous, contrived and, I believe, hateful message to their constituency. It's repugnant. As the father of a child who died of a terminal illness I find this despicable.
David_E
· 1 year ago
I wish you had said it that way prior, rather than slander the child (and hundreds of thousands like him) who can't defend themselves.
Thanks, Jeff. I actually missed that. Hysterical. When my ex's family decided to make a short film starring my daughter to inaugurate some fly-by-night film fleece operation, they did so by starring her as the poor, decrepit, cystic fibrosis kid who was probably gonna die any day. At that moment they ceased having a "terminally ill child dealing with cystic fibrosis" to "hey, look at Weezy, the tear-wrenching sympathy machine." What gets me is that Palin can use her kid in such a callous fashion but if I label it EXACTLY as she is doing it (the retarded prop) I am a bad person. It's total PC. I empathize with the child. In fact, I feel terrible for it. But, this was a sick kid used as a photo op. I didn't see Bristol there? Why not? These are hateful people who put nice words on evil deeds. Well, someone has to put them in their place.
David_E
· 1 year ago
Y'know, I do get irony. (And I did laugh at that Onion story.) I just did not take your point as humor. I guess I see a lot of daylight between "prop" and "retardo." To me, the latter is personal, and really unnecessary in this context.
But that's me. I'm kinda sensitive.
mojo
· 1 year ago
I am uncomfortable with it too. Can't stand Palin, but WTF is she supposed to do? Deny his existence? Be more like a man and stuff the fam in the closet except at the debates and convention? As BIden put it last night, challenge the judgment and not the motivation. And I don't think there's any bad judgment on display here (except...am I the only one who thinks her daughter who always carries him around is a little small for the job? I hold my breath wondering if she's gonna topple right over carrying that kid...stairs have to be brutal! It'd be about like me carrying a Honda Civic around).
DE
· 1 year ago
"WTF is she supposed to do? Deny his existence?"
Well, that's essentially what she's doing with her preggers oldest daughter. Did you see her up on stage after that debate? No. And that's because it would remind everyone that she has a 17-year-old pregnant daughter. I agree with Allen that they're using Trig as a prop.
David_E
· 1 year ago
I think we all agree on that point.
mojo
· 1 year ago
I think I don't agree. I think that Trig just....is. If he's not there, we'll rip on her denying his existence. If he is, he's a prop. I think Trig should be left out of the discussion. Just like gayness and blackness and whiteness should be. They just...are. There is no good bad or up or down. As for what is her name, Bristol? That's an interesting discussion, no. My question on Bristol is, why did McCain pick Palin as VP knowing about Bristol in the first place? Cunning or reckless?
mojo
· 1 year ago
and by there is no good bad up or down...I mean, no one should care if I am black or white or gay or straight any more than they give a crap that I use Michelins or Firestones on my minivan. Or that I have a minivan.
Allen
· 1 year ago
Trouble is, they flaunt the kid. He was delivered to her at the end if the speech. Todd can't hold his kid? And why not leave it at home? Surely they could get a sitter, after all, Bristol wasn't busy. Trig is a prop. A heinous use of that child, I might add
mojo
· 1 year ago
well, I've shoveled some coal into this hopper and I shall depart. I do hope if Palin's elected (clearly I do not prefer that outcome) she becomes an advocate for handicapped children. I would be pleased to pay more taxes toward that, and her pollsters would have a hard time disputing that it's a bad play.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
My wife's comment every time she sees the Palin family trotted out is, "Why doesn't Todd ever hold that baby? The world could be ending, and nobody would let Todd near that baby!"
It's actually an a propos question, because as an at-home dad myself I couldn't help but notice that babies tend to become most comfortable around the person who's caring for the child most frequently.
Those who claimed it was sexist to question Sarah's decision to run for VP with a special-needs newborn noted that Todd is perfectly capable of caring for Trig. From the looks of things, though, he never wants to hold him. Which begs the question, WHO IS PARENTING THIS BABY?!?!?!
Inquiring minds want to know.
You People are Sick
· 1 year ago
maybe it isn't any of your business who is caring for tis baby but the Palin's? But my best guess is Todd or one of the kids was holding Trig DURING THE DEBATE? I don't know about you, but if I just debated in front of 70 million people, I'd want to hold my baby first thin! and not be an asshole to suggest otherwise.
steve
· 1 year ago
You are a deplorable person. Typical hypocrite liberal, cry for political correctness in language - but not for you.
mojo
· 1 year ago
Ease back on that calling Jon deplorable stuff, bud. Or were you singling out someone else as deplorable?
Unless you can, uh, point us to the "cry for political correctness" anywhere here on this page? And then...can you cite said actual deplorable act?
Otherwise this looks like another heapin' helpin' of ditto'ing.
steve
· 1 year ago
using the term "retardo-prop" is deplorable beyond words. That's what I'm referring to, as others did.
mojo
· 1 year ago
All right, you're talking about Allen, but you commented under jon, so we cleared that up that confusion. Now, who among us is crying for political correctness, again?
steve
· 1 year ago
no one is mr. mojo, no one. My comment was meant in general ok.
The main point is that calling her kid a retardo-prop shows utter hate & contempt. As another post said, he needs to grow up.
jefito
· 1 year ago
I think your main point is that all liberals are hypocrites, actually, which shows just as much contempt. Were you this upset when the incumbent mocked a death row inmate, or when a presidential candidate started singing about war?
steve
· 1 year ago
It says a lot that you all seem to be fine with calling her kid a retardo-prop. Enjoy sleeping with yourselves
jefito
· 1 year ago
I hope that wide brush you're painting with saves you from breaking your neck after you fall off your high horse, Steve-O.
steve
· 1 year ago
I challenge you to rise above hate and at least say that he shouldn't have used that term. If not, I'll assume your pretty cool with calling her kid a retardo-prop
The ball is in your court. Do you have some civility on your high horse?
jefito
· 1 year ago
Oh, I'm sure you'll assume whatever you like no matter what I say -- based on the comments you've already made here, assuming things about people is one of your favorite things to do.
For the record, although Allen used a phrase I wouldn't have chosen, I know him, and I know he's an extremely compassionate person, especially with regards to children, so I'm willing to give him a mulligan for it. I also understand why you might take issue with what he said -- but what gets my dander up is when you come in here and start throwing insults at all liberals everywhere, or the site in general. I think you're guilty of demonstrating some of the same behavior you're condemning so loudly.
Not that I expect you to stop now. You'd be much less entertaining if you did, actually, so I'd be sort of disappointed. Keep right on issuing blanket condemnations and wallowing in your righteous indignation.
steve
· 1 year ago
you know what, if you say he's a good guy I'll take your word for it. I just wish people would tone down the hate and go after Palin or any of them based on their politics - not their handicapped children.
And I insult both liberals and conservatives, as I feel that both groups (aka D's and R's) robotically follow a dogma vice actually think about issues and form their own opinions. If they actually took time to form their own opinions about things, both parties would collapse and the country could put aside the failure of the 2-party system, and all the hate, & partisanship that comes along with it, as demonstrated by Mr. Allen's original comment.
Hell, I'm sure folks in Congress throw insults at each other that are just as bad (maybe not in the open but no doubt at the water cooler). That's what the two party system has gotten us. Children throwing insults at each other.
jefito
· 1 year ago
But he WAS going after Palin -- for using her baby as a prop. You disagreed with the way he phrased it, that's one thing, but his original point remains.
mojo
· 1 year ago
Amen.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
Steve, how is was said may have not been the most elegant, but she's using the status of her child the same way W uses his cowboy hat. Now THAT'S deplorable.
steve
· 1 year ago
"may not have been the most elegant" Really? C'mon. You know as well as I do that it was deplorable. And if it were reversed and Biden had a special needs kid and someone made the same comment everyone on this blog would be screaming bloody murder.
Hate her politics, don't be mean and say hateful things about things she can't control.
Christ is there any civility left......
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
I'm actually offended by how Biden keeps using his dead wife and the accident that nearly killed his kids... Yes, it happened, but I'm of the mind that the kids are off the table. They shouldn't be used for jockey positioning.
It's simply that Palin is so much more vocal about her special-needs baby, and by plopping the kid front and center, of course there's going to be this sort of attention paid. Truly protecting the kid would be to keep the kid out of the spotlight. Aside from the son going to Iraq, you don't see her being as vocal about her daughters, do you? Isn't she, by her actions, causing this baby to be singled out.
You have to admit that much.
steve
· 1 year ago
Ok, agreed. But I have no problem with it being said the way you just did. Throwing epithets out there does nothing but show anger, hate, and childishness. That was the reason I commented.
David_E
· 1 year ago
This was my original point, as well. I happen to agree with Allen re: Trig's political "appearances." I was just so taken aback with the invective he made his point with that the bitterness and thoughtlessness of the words overwhelmed the message.
Again, I don't consider this PC so much as simple empathy and humanity. Surely the same words hurled back at Allen would hurt in a similar situation.
Allen
· 1 year ago
If I was using my daughter as a means to propagate my own standing then someone calling me out and referring to her as "weezey McSympathy child" would probably be right. She's dead now but she would have most likely laughed her ass of at that statement.
mojo
· 1 year ago
I wanted Biden to say at some point "McCain says Obama's not ready to lead because he's inexperienced in Washingotn. What's your excuse?"
I also wanted him to call them out on "You keep saying 'We have won or are close to in Iraq' and yet McCain keeps saying 'our gains are so fragile in Iraq, we must keep going!'" Which is it? Massive victory or not? Please clarify.
I also wanted him to say "you say you're 'close to the heartland' and claim to be practically standing out there amongst the amber waves of grain, but yet 7 times I've also heard you say you're 'up there in Alaska.' as if that's a bigger, better place to govern than, say, Illinois." Please pick one or the other, you can't have it both ways.
I guess discretion is the better part of valor and Biden (despite his mojo-esque tendencies to speak first and think later) showed rare discipline last night. At points I think she was baiting him to rip into her with a couple insults and clearly exaggerated accusations but he brung his A game to the debate.
As far as Palin's performance goes I agree with everyone here who basically says it was a stump speech and not a debate. Hide your lack of debate skills and lack of knowledge on the issues behind "Maverick bucking the controlling media" bluster. The scary thing is that the conservative media eats it up. I guess they're suckers...and I get the picture that more people will catch the sound bites than actually watched the debates so her debate technique or actually answering questions won't matter.
Face it, Los Angeles vs. Chicago simultaneously playing a baseball game (first and third TV markets) did not help the viewership so the soundbite-ology that both candidates practiced was probably sounder strategy than actual debating.
Palin, to her credit, was smooth as advertised in many of the previews. She was every bit as telegenic as left and right wing media predicted she would be. She gracefully dodged answering questions, much more gracefully than any candidate I've seen since William Jefferson Himself.
By the way, the "Candyland and chess" line is the best, most concise description of the debate I have seen. I watched it and have read both left, right, and neutral stories about it...and our own Jon Cummings nails it.
My summation: Not as good as the Stockdale VP debate, but let's be realistic--will any debate, ever, top that nutso-fest?
rahulgupta
· 1 year ago
I'm totally late to this conversation, but I have to say that this whole article articulately reflects the conversation my wife and I have been having since the debate...
and I completely second "Candyland and chess" as the best, most concise description of the debate.
DE
· 1 year ago
Oh, and no one mentioned her response to the powers of the Vice President bit and whether she agreed with Cheney on his interpretation of the Constitution. I truly think she did not expect the question, did not know how to answer it, so her instincts told her to agree with the position of the sitting Republican VP. Either that, or she's just as crazy and dangerous as Cheney! But I can't give her that much credit.
mojo
· 1 year ago
I loved that whole exchange. It was almost as if I was watching afootball game. I yelled to my wife Kate, c'mon Joe!!! Quote the constitution!!!! ANd when he did, I did something similar to an end zone dance. Fantastic, at least on the scale of Watered DOwn Debate Theater us thinkin' people's forced to endure.
Oldetymer
· 1 year ago
Damn DW, is that what you want in your obit, death due to a spork? at least bring out the silverware before you make a rash decision.
:-D Shea
· 1 year ago
So how did Gwen do? Is she going to sell a lot of books?
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
Gwen did neither good nor bad. She was adequate, but in fairness, she did keep Palin's response times lower than Biden's. Some say that was a bias toward the Obama / Biden ticket but I disagree. If you really want to help the ticket, you keep the opponent rambling until they shatter. Ifill's interpreted "help" if it was intended completely backfired.
Dan
· 1 year ago
Let's face it. This debate means zippo. Obama's going to win this thing, despite the fact that he's an empty suit. The guy came out of nowhere, has little or no track record, and thus a lot of people fill this vessel with their own projected hopes and dreams. He's an articulate, smooth talking lawyer. And that's about it. I'm not thrilled about McCain either, but Obama's meteoric rise is a real headscratcher.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
But how is it a head-scratcher? The Republican Party is stereotypically viewed as being old, fat, white men. In a time where people want to run from what they might view as abject failure, they move toward just about everything atypical of the GOP.
autodidact
· 1 year ago
Has anybody perused the fact check on this debate from Newsweek? It seems the verbal fudge was flying fast and furious from both sides. So I guess in the end it boils down to style?
Frankly, I haven't watched the debate. I plan to do so tonight. Did Biden ask Gwen Ifill to rise up from her wheelchair for applause?
To directly address this, that's why we have Schultz smack dab between Biden and Palin, if his famous catchphrase is any indicator.
Allen
· 1 year ago
For the record (and thanks to those that came to my defense) here's what I meant regarding the "retardo-prop" comment. This is not how I refer to Trig. Nor is it how I imagine anyone else does, least of all that family. However, the way they are treating Trig and his place in the campaign is as a prop. A "disabled" child. A "special" child. In the 70s we called it retarded and, yes, it was a pejorative even then. Using that word in that way was my way of giving voice to just how low they have gone in their pandering to what they consider their base. I couldn't put the word in quotes because no one has actually used it, but I can actually imagine a time or a place where Steve Schmidt and Rick Davis are in a smokefilled back room and Steve says, "Yeah, at that point she should pick up that retarded kid of hers and kiss it." Because that's how these people think. I know. I've dealt with their ilk in advertising brainstorm sessions, i social circles, etc. Sadly, the point got lost because of the un-pc word I used. To this point I add this: I am working at an Obama HQ in a very decidedly african american neighborhood. Today someone brought two bags of Oreos. One regular and the other white or vanilla. I turned to one of my co-horts, a salty and very well respected mover and shaker in the hood and asked, "Can we put up a sign over the white ones that says 'White Only'?" His suggestion was that we make sure we put one over the regular that say "Blacks Only". The office manager shouted out, "No! I like the white ones!" In a PC white majority office, I would have been strung up for this. I think I prefer this office.
In short: sorry, didn't mean to offend. But I still think Trig is being used. And it's sad.
DwDunphy
· 1 year ago
And, like I said before, you don't see Palin trotting out her young unwed teen daughter like that. Politicians, like Hollywood stars, who use their kids as any sort of publicity point make me recoil.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
I think that's too general a statement. Practically EVERY politician trots out the family at some point -- if he or she has one -- because a pretty picture of the wife/husband and kids says, "Look, I've got peeps -- I'm just like you."
If it's done judiciously, it works and it's inoffensive. One of the few things the Clintons did well in merging their personal and political lives was to show off just enough of Chelsea -- the walk to Madison Square Garden at the '92 convention was memorable -- without exposing her too much, and they were vigilant to keep her out of the media. (Georgie Boy wishes he'd been a bit more vigilant with Barbara and Jenna during his first term.)
Obama went too far when he allowed "Extra" to do a family interview over the summer, but he reined it in quickly. Otherwise, his trotting out of the fam has been nothing but a positive for him, especially in an election where he's been trying to beat back the "this guy's not like you" attacks from Hillary and the Republicans.
To that end, expect Michelle and the girls to take a higher profile over the next four weeks as McCain and the Rovians pull out all the despicable Republican stops. Batten down the hatches...
autodidact
· 1 year ago
"To that end, expect Michelle and the girls to take a higher profile over the next four weeks as McCain and the Rovians pull out all the despicable Republican stops. "
Yes, that would be while Obama runs truthful informative commercials about how McCain wanted to cut Social Security checks by 50%. ;-)
I still say the best way to decide this is pistols at thirty paces.
The Bitter Cling-er
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
Cannot defend that ad...though, far as I can tell, it aired only once before they pulled it in shame...
And hey, at least Social Security (and "private accounts" in a stock market that's down 2000 points lately) is an issue that's relevant to voters, unlike the crap the Republicans are cooking up to change the subject...
Allen
· 1 year ago
You know, I expect "some" sort of traipsing out of family. Kids, etc. It's part and parcel of the sport of politics and everyone knows that. To an extent. When Palin not only made mention of her "Special Needs" baby but then showed said baby being coddled by...yet another baby, they introduced not just the children quotient but a callous, kids-as-happy-meal-toy aspect. To that end, bringing the kid on stage at the end of the veep debate was nothing more than a photo op with the re****o-prop. And yet, Biden's quick choking up did more for me with images of dead children that I have never seen. The difference is that the former is crass and calculated and the latter seemed to be somewhat real. For some reason people really want to give her a pass on things like that and I don't think we should. I think she is exactly what she seems: an opportunistic, social/political climbing television weather-twinkie (let's see who is offended by that one) who used her looks to get anywhere she could. In many ways, Sarah Palin sets the women's movement back 50 years. She should be stopped. Thankfully, it's happening as we speak.
JonCummings
· 1 year ago
Hey, she's a sports-twinkie, not a weather-twinkie. There's a crucial difference. (Fewer green screens, I believe.)
All Comments
Then, the day after, television and radio trot out the "man on the street" commentaries and the public fall over themselves to praise Palin. "She thinks like we think" and "She speaks for us" and "She's the voice of the common person." Then I start wondering, if I sharpen up my coffee spork the right way, this could all be over with right now.
On the bright side, the post-debate polls broke totally Biden's way. Just because she cleared the bar doesn't mean she won.
Biden won the debate hands down. Why? Because they both had jobs they had to NOT do. He had to not come across as a bully, smarmy or sexist and a know-it-all. She had to not turn into one of Mudd's androids when presented with flawed logic by Mr. Spock.
And they needed to take the game to their opponent.
Done and done. I could go on and on about how badly Palin did (really? McClellan?!? Really????) but let's focus on the two real moments of the debate. The "you're no John Kennedy" moments. The ones that are always best served when they are organic and not rehearsed or just semi-rehearesed. There were two. And at least one of them will live on for a long time, if not ever.
The first was when Biden took the air out of the Maverick talk. At first I thought it was too late and now I realize that it was perfectly timed. After she used that buzzword 9 times he took it away from them. Probably forever for a lot of people. And she of course, had no retort since she would prefer to speak to americans without the filter of the media, which means, of course, scripted.
The other was the most real moment of the entire campaign. When Biden, speaking about being a single father after the tragedy of losing his wife and child in an accident, even 30 years hence, seemed honest and real and brought a tear to this father's eye. And it made the hoisting of retardo-prop at the end of the show seem callous, calculated and just plain sad pandering. (By the way. Why the fuck isn't that kid in bed???)
So here's the way I basically described what is going to happen on my succinctly semi-genius blog, Septenary.
"If I was a money man in the evangelical wing of the republican party I would be asking her to a) pull away from John McCain a bit and b) run for Ted Stevens senate seat. I imagine that there are a lot of gay-bashing, ethnic-hating, simple minded, gun-caressing republicans that see her as their bright and shining future.*
Okay. I don't think a) she will make it for 8 years in the senate let alone win that seat and b) the evangelical, hate spewing segment of the right will even exist in 8 years.
Because make no bones about it:
The next president will be president for 8 years."
Trust me. McCain is going to start showing up (or his money, at least) in Oregon and Minnesota and North Carolina as a bid to hold those precious senate seats. The RNC has given up the ghost and McCain knows he's the loser. But he'll game it for 30 days beacuse it's politics and ya never know.
But he knows.
Grow up.
It's not P.C. It's simple empathy.
When my ex's family decided to make a short film starring my daughter to inaugurate some fly-by-night film fleece operation, they did so by starring her as the poor, decrepit, cystic fibrosis kid who was probably gonna die any day.
At that moment they ceased having a "terminally ill child dealing with cystic fibrosis" to "hey, look at Weezy, the tear-wrenching sympathy machine."
What gets me is that Palin can use her kid in such a callous fashion but if I label it EXACTLY as she is doing it (the retarded prop) I am a bad person.
It's total PC.
I empathize with the child. In fact, I feel terrible for it. But, this was a sick kid used as a photo op. I didn't see Bristol there? Why not? These are hateful people who put nice words on evil deeds. Well, someone has to put them in their place.
But that's me. I'm kinda sensitive.
Well, that's essentially what she's doing with her preggers oldest daughter. Did you see her up on stage after that debate? No. And that's because it would remind everyone that she has a 17-year-old pregnant daughter. I agree with Allen that they're using Trig as a prop.
It's actually an a propos question, because as an at-home dad myself I couldn't help but notice that babies tend to become most comfortable around the person who's caring for the child most frequently.
Those who claimed it was sexist to question Sarah's decision to run for VP with a special-needs newborn noted that Todd is perfectly capable of caring for Trig. From the looks of things, though, he never wants to hold him. Which begs the question, WHO IS PARENTING THIS BABY?!?!?!
Inquiring minds want to know.
Unless you can, uh, point us to the "cry for political correctness" anywhere here on this page? And then...can you cite said actual deplorable act?
Otherwise this looks like another heapin' helpin' of ditto'ing.
The main point is that calling her kid a retardo-prop shows utter hate & contempt. As another post said, he needs to grow up.
The ball is in your court. Do you have some civility on your high horse?
For the record, although Allen used a phrase I wouldn't have chosen, I know him, and I know he's an extremely compassionate person, especially with regards to children, so I'm willing to give him a mulligan for it. I also understand why you might take issue with what he said -- but what gets my dander up is when you come in here and start throwing insults at all liberals everywhere, or the site in general. I think you're guilty of demonstrating some of the same behavior you're condemning so loudly.
Not that I expect you to stop now. You'd be much less entertaining if you did, actually, so I'd be sort of disappointed. Keep right on issuing blanket condemnations and wallowing in your righteous indignation.
And I insult both liberals and conservatives, as I feel that both groups (aka D's and R's) robotically follow a dogma vice actually think about issues and form their own opinions. If they actually took time to form their own opinions about things, both parties would collapse and the country could put aside the failure of the 2-party system, and all the hate, & partisanship that comes along with it, as demonstrated by Mr. Allen's original comment.
Hell, I'm sure folks in Congress throw insults at each other that are just as bad (maybe not in the open but no doubt at the water cooler). That's what the two party system has gotten us. Children throwing insults at each other.
Hate her politics, don't be mean and say hateful things about things she can't control.
Christ is there any civility left......
It's simply that Palin is so much more vocal about her special-needs baby, and by plopping the kid front and center, of course there's going to be this sort of attention paid. Truly protecting the kid would be to keep the kid out of the spotlight. Aside from the son going to Iraq, you don't see her being as vocal about her daughters, do you? Isn't she, by her actions, causing this baby to be singled out.
You have to admit that much.
Again, I don't consider this PC so much as simple empathy and humanity. Surely the same words hurled back at Allen would hurt in a similar situation.
She's dead now but she would have most likely laughed her ass of at that statement.
I also wanted him to call them out on "You keep saying 'We have won or are close to in Iraq' and yet McCain keeps saying 'our gains are so fragile in Iraq, we must keep going!'" Which is it? Massive victory or not? Please clarify.
I also wanted him to say "you say you're 'close to the heartland' and claim to be practically standing out there amongst the amber waves of grain, but yet 7 times I've also heard you say you're 'up there in Alaska.' as if that's a bigger, better place to govern than, say, Illinois." Please pick one or the other, you can't have it both ways.
I guess discretion is the better part of valor and Biden (despite his mojo-esque tendencies to speak first and think later) showed rare discipline last night. At points I think she was baiting him to rip into her with a couple insults and clearly exaggerated accusations but he brung his A game to the debate.
As far as Palin's performance goes I agree with everyone here who basically says it was a stump speech and not a debate. Hide your lack of debate skills and lack of knowledge on the issues behind "Maverick bucking the controlling media" bluster. The scary thing is that the conservative media eats it up. I guess they're suckers...and I get the picture that more people will catch the sound bites than actually watched the debates so her debate technique or actually answering questions won't matter.
Face it, Los Angeles vs. Chicago simultaneously playing a baseball game (first and third TV markets) did not help the viewership so the soundbite-ology that both candidates practiced was probably sounder strategy than actual debating.
Palin, to her credit, was smooth as advertised in many of the previews. She was every bit as telegenic as left and right wing media predicted she would be. She gracefully dodged answering questions, much more gracefully than any candidate I've seen since William Jefferson Himself.
By the way, the "Candyland and chess" line is the best, most concise description of the debate I have seen. I watched it and have read both left, right, and neutral stories about it...and our own Jon Cummings nails it.
My summation: Not as good as the Stockdale VP debate, but let's be realistic--will any debate, ever, top that nutso-fest?
and I completely second "Candyland and chess" as the best, most concise description of the debate.
Frankly, I haven't watched the debate. I plan to do so tonight. Did Biden ask Gwen Ifill to rise up from her wheelchair for applause?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2mzbuRgnI4
This is not how I refer to Trig. Nor is it how I imagine anyone else does, least of all that family.
However, the way they are treating Trig and his place in the campaign is as a prop. A "disabled" child. A "special" child. In the 70s we called it retarded and, yes, it was a pejorative even then. Using that word in that way was my way of giving voice to just how low they have gone in their pandering to what they consider their base.
I couldn't put the word in quotes because no one has actually used it, but I can actually imagine a time or a place where Steve Schmidt and Rick Davis are in a smokefilled back room and Steve says, "Yeah, at that point she should pick up that retarded kid of hers and kiss it." Because that's how these people think.
I know. I've dealt with their ilk in advertising brainstorm sessions, i social circles, etc.
Sadly, the point got lost because of the un-pc word I used.
To this point I add this:
I am working at an Obama HQ in a very decidedly african american neighborhood. Today someone brought two bags of Oreos. One regular and the other white or vanilla.
I turned to one of my co-horts, a salty and very well respected mover and shaker in the hood and asked, "Can we put up a sign over the white ones that says 'White Only'?"
His suggestion was that we make sure we put one over the regular that say "Blacks Only".
The office manager shouted out, "No! I like the white ones!"
In a PC white majority office, I would have been strung up for this.
I think I prefer this office.
In short: sorry, didn't mean to offend. But I still think Trig is being used. And it's sad.
If it's done judiciously, it works and it's inoffensive. One of the few things the Clintons did well in merging their personal and political lives was to show off just enough of Chelsea -- the walk to Madison Square Garden at the '92 convention was memorable -- without exposing her too much, and they were vigilant to keep her out of the media. (Georgie Boy wishes he'd been a bit more vigilant with Barbara and Jenna during his first term.)
Obama went too far when he allowed "Extra" to do a family interview over the summer, but he reined it in quickly. Otherwise, his trotting out of the fam has been nothing but a positive for him, especially in an election where he's been trying to beat back the "this guy's not like you" attacks from Hillary and the Republicans.
To that end, expect Michelle and the girls to take a higher profile over the next four weeks as McCain and the Rovians pull out all the despicable Republican stops. Batten down the hatches...
Yes, that would be while Obama runs truthful informative commercials about how McCain wanted to cut Social Security checks by 50%. ;-)
I still say the best way to decide this is pistols at thirty paces.
The Bitter Cling-er
And hey, at least Social Security (and "private accounts" in a stock market that's down 2000 points lately) is an issue that's relevant to voters, unlike the crap the Republicans are cooking up to change the subject...
When Palin not only made mention of her "Special Needs" baby but then showed said baby being coddled by...yet another baby, they introduced not just the children quotient but a callous, kids-as-happy-meal-toy aspect. To that end, bringing the kid on stage at the end of the veep debate was nothing more than a photo op with the re****o-prop.
And yet, Biden's quick choking up did more for me with images of dead children that I have never seen.
The difference is that the former is crass and calculated and the latter seemed to be somewhat real.
For some reason people really want to give her a pass on things like that and I don't think we should. I think she is exactly what she seems: an opportunistic, social/political climbing television weather-twinkie (let's see who is offended by that one) who used her looks to get anywhere she could. In many ways, Sarah Palin sets the women's movement back 50 years.
She should be stopped.
Thankfully, it's happening as we speak.