Popdose - Latest Comments in When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Paul CC — Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:23:01 -0000

It is interesting to note that in their discography, all members were allowed to contribute, which they did. All who wrote were credited as songwriters. It's also interesting to note that RR was largely responsible for the hits the band had from 1970 onwards. Now whether the record company strong-armed the band into having RR have more control over songwriting or if the band grew lazier and wanted more hits from RR, I don't know but RR wrote what he wrote and the others didn't. If the commercial appeal of RR's songs became an issue, they would have raised it in '70. They didn't seem to have much of a problem with it for years until after the money seemed to go RR's way. Obviously not a fault of Robbie's. He wanted to get out from under the road-weary lifestyle and the pressure of writing and recording. Also not a fault of Robbie's for feeling that way.

How much commitment and loyalty does a person need for it to eventually eat them up inside and destroy whatever integrity they have left? He was learn-ed in the craft. He was burning out. He'd seen enough and dealt with others personal issues that were largely self-created. When he felt the world began to rest on his shoulders while at the same time being resented for it, it's a lose/lose, catch 22 situation. Who would want any of it? He left, as he needed to. Whatever was his, was his. I'm certain he gave as much as he could and possibly more than should be expected. Everybody wanted him but he was done. To be on his own, was the only way out. Im sure he dealt with guilt and uncertainty but I'm also sure he dealt with his own resentment and lack of autonomy.

He didn't view the band as talentless hacks, he just needed to remove himself from an increasingly toxic situation and didn't want to get pulled back into it. He'd been there, done that. There's more to the story than just these things because reality is always more complex. In life, everyone create their own narratives and reasons to explain their actions, even to themselves. Observers then repeat the process after the fact. Often somehow accidentally putting themselves in the story.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Chikkipop — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 12:14:26 -0000

"easily the most overrated guitarist"

Couldn't agree more.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

rb — Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:12:09 -0000

According to Robertson's book "Testimony", Richard Manuel first approached Robertson about selling his publishing, then Rick and Garth followed in inquiring. This would have been around the mid-70's. Richard wasn't even alive in the early 2000's and I could not find any source that said so. Robbie did not say whether he purchased the publishing or not. Levon said in an interview in 1999 it didn't happen. But then again Helm kept on contradicting himself on details for the rest of his life, as he forgot where he put his lies much of the time.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

rb — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 21:09:51 -0000

Robertson's roots go way back to meeting the great songwriters in New York as a fifteen year old, most notably Doc Pomus and Mort Shulman, in the Brill Building which also employed the likes of Neil Diamond and Carol King. It had an indelible effect on his songwriting skills. Joni Mitchell would have more in common with Carol King (as a confessional singer-songwriter) than Bob Dylan, who was more of a distant acquaintance to her.

A lot of this Diamond nonsense has to do with Helm's doing his damnnest discounting The Last Waltz. The same book which also started the urban myth of Robertson singing into a dead mic. Helm's "stories" have unravelled over the years.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Bruce R — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 12:28:29 -0000

Not sure what your point is. The inclusion of Neil diamond at "The Waltz" is pretty universally criticized. You may be right, but I've never heard that in re fellow Canadian- & Dylan-connected Mitchell.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

rb — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:50:30 -0000

Wow you can see over the years (9 years) in the comments that the harshness on Robertson has gradually diminished. I think that with all the information that has been received within those years from interviews from people (John Simon, Jon Taplin, Larry Campbell etc.) who knew The Band, and in the case of Campbell, knew Helm has added a lot of insight that wasn't there when this article came into print. There is definitely a case to be made that Levon may have thought he was falsely entitled to writing credits. Now Robertson has his book out finally, and with some of the knowledge from the interviews I've read, I can see with a little more clarity. Robertson's book DOES come off as more credible to me than Helm's book does. The facts are there that Robertson continued to write songs after the breakup whereas Helm wrote little to none. I also found out that the rest of band members did receive publishing on the songs. And that there is scant evidence of them echoing Helm's sentiments. I also found out from other sources that they were all quite wealthy after the breakup as well. I always took the stance that the truth was somewhere in the middle, but I am now beginning to take the stance that Robbie was pretty much right after all. Matthew Bolin should be ashamed of himself.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

rb — Thu, 26 Jan 2017 02:34:53 -0000

"The Band played with these other cats" .. you mean like Joni Mitchell?

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Bruce R — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:28:40 -0000

And, Guy, I get to opine that your comments about Diamond are surely pro-JRR fantasy. The Band played with these other cats (or were influenced by them) on & off for years. Diamond is there as a JRR promo.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Bruce R — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:25:12 -0000

Very well put, Guy. We weren't there & can't be sure, but your comments sound reasonable based on what I've read over the decades. (And, trust me, I'm a huge Levon fan!! I'll argue he was the best rock and roll artist of all time.)

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Bruce R — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 19:04:35 -0000

Broken Arrow is definitely a "Band" song. It has everything -- well, everything but the late 3-some's harmony & Garth tying everything together. Oh yeah, that mean's that it take's more than words & music, doesn't it! As someone said somewhere online, the whole was more than the 5 pieces.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

pacmech1 — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 23:02:01 -0000

Anyone interested in the issue of who did the songwriting in The Band should google interviews with other insiders associated with The band. John Simon producer of the first two albums and the musical director for the Last Waltz declared that Robbie was the songwriter(at least twice that I found). Ronnie Hawkins declared that Robbie was the only one of the boys writing songs when they were with him. Finally Larry Campbell (part of the second incarnation of The Band) declared that Levon was never going to do any of the real work when it came to songwriting but his input caused Larry to rewrite songs in a way that made them better. Levon was a great singer and drummer, but it seems what he wanted to call songwriting is actually known as arranging. One other thing, if you watch the alternate feed of the last Waltz with the original soundtrack you can tell Robbie's mic was working contrary to Levon's BS. It's available to watch on youtube, one camera and black and white.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

deb — Sat, 05 Jul 2014 15:27:41 -0000

I am disappointed to hear The Weight being sung on a commercial used to advertise Hay Day - an amusing and appealing commercial that totally cheapens one of the best songs ever. It seems disrespectful to Levon Helm and his memory, as well as the other band members. If Robbie Robertson is making any money off of this, then there is only one word to describe him and that is "greedy". I admire Robbie Robertson for his musical talent, but it bothers me to imagine him going to visit Levon Helm on his deathbed after years of discord - kind of late and seems just a little self serving - very staged and theatrical - not exactly meaningful. Shortly before his death, Helm had lost the suit he had against BBDO for using The Weight in a Cingular Wireless Commercial. His point of view was made very clear. If Robbie Robertson has any respect for Helm, he would be doing everything he can to make sure that song, or any other songs that the Band recorded, are not used commercially. If Robertson had anything to do with Hay Day's use of The Weight or if he is making any money from it, he should be shunned by anyone who loved the Band. Yes, Robertson is talented but I'm not sure that I can separate his art from his actions
.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Wallsend — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 19:02:41 -0000

They all got paid large performance fees. How do you know he bought out the others music rights? Are you Robbie's accountant?

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Wallsend — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 03:09:05 -0000

The re-formed Band made a career out of playing Robbie's songs, apart from Dixie of course which Levon refused to sing because he said it was an insult to the South. You still didn't answer my question. Why was Levon upset that Robbie quit if he was such a bad guy? Also if it was only Robbie that wanted to quit, why didn't the four other guys just carry on without him?

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Guy Smiley — Sun, 05 Jan 2014 14:24:17 -0000

"Helm, meanwhile, has disassociated himself from The Last Waltz, calling it a disaster, what with the WTF? appearance of Neil Diamond, and nary a shot of Richard Manuel throughout the film. "

Uhh... Richard is indeed shown in the film. Both on stage and in (barely coherent) interview segments. As comical as he seems in the interviews, it's more sad given how things turned out for him. I confess that Richard, Rick, and Garth get short shrift in the movie, but none of those guys were as dynamic of personalities as Robbie or Levon. Hence, we get more interview time with those two.

Levon probably wasn't hot on making the movie or ending the band as a performing act, so it probably makes sense that Scorcese spent more time with his buddy Robbie. But Levon is in no way underrepresented in the film. I'd also guess that the movie and album made all of the Band members a fair chunk of change over the years. More to Robbie than the others, no doubt, but still.

As for Neil Diamond, I thought his song ("Dry Your Eyes") and performance was great. The film explains the Brill Building/Tin Pan Alley influence as a reason to include him. While Neil himself probably wasn't an influence on the group, I get what they were going for. Diamond was still a link to that era. Of course, the movie makes no mention of Robbie having produced Diamond's then-current album (Beautiful Noise, definitely one of Diamond's best albums). Robbie, and one or two other Band members (not to mention Last Waltz participant Dr. John) played on the album, including "Dry Your Eyes," so that's *really* why Diamond was there.

But I never had a problem with it, regardless of the reason. If anything, Neil left the sequins home and was a lot more restrained in dress than Van Morrison was that night (though Van was great too).

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Guy Smiley — Sun, 05 Jan 2014 14:06:40 -0000

I won't attack you personally, but since you're doing that to the artists involved, can't you see how others might feel the need to do that you?

Anyhow, by the very title of this series, you're taking a side and not really doing much to provide a more well-rounded view of things. Same was true with the John Fogerty article. Maybe your facts are right, I don't fully know, but I don't think most people (except those who were there) know the full truth. I find it sad that Robbie had a falling out with the others, and that he and Levon only reconciled somewhat with Levon on his deathbed.

I'm sure Robbie's got an ego the size of Canada, and he probably apes too much of the credit (certainly The Last Waltz -- great as it is -- plays up this notion), but this series has a slant and doesn't even try to dig deeper than that. Public opinion seems to be that Levon was a saint (I love him, met him once, and I think he was a great man, but hardly a "saint") and that Robbie's a theiving asshole. I don't think either is completely true, but all this article does is try to rehash the same old claims. Why bother if you're not bringing anything new to the table? It's best you ended this.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Guy Smiley — Sun, 05 Jan 2014 13:55:24 -0000

And, of course, in Levon's solo career and the reunited Band albums alike, there are not a whole lot of original compositions either. So, while I believe Robbie is an egotist and probably cut the other Band members out of royalties somewhat, I think it's safe to say that he really did write most of the songs all by himself.

This is not to say the other Band members were merely a backing band. Not at all. Levon, along with Rick and Richard, were the voices of the group and all of them (let's not forget Garth either) were all essential to The Band's sound. No question.

Although Levon, and the reunited Band, made some fine records post-Last Waltz, none of them were as good as The Band's earliest stuff (same is true for Robbie himself). I think that shows they were ALL important to each other as a collective whole, but Robbie was probably the best, and most prolific, writer of the bunch.

Levon had a right to be mad when Robbie wanted to call it quits, but Robbie also had the right to stop. I'm not sure how its Robbie's fault that the others never had the same success, creatively or commercially, without him. I think Levon's last studio albums (Dirt Farmer and Electric Dirt) were pretty great though. It would've been nice if Robbie had helped his old friends out a bit more, but it's not like he was obligated to either.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

johnhenry3 — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 02:28:32 -0000

Levon and the others did not want to stop, it was Robbie that said I am done. I hope you're being sarcastic here, because it is not really a funny situation. Business is also something every musician does not think about, you play and have big songs and think you will be okay cause your face is on there or it is your drum part, piano melody etc... The Band had no new material to move on with and the old material Robbie had registered as himself as principle writer and owned the publishing. When in fact we all know from listening that most of the song writing(except lyrics) was done as a collaboration and more than just arrangement wise. This was a common mistake made by players back then and even happens all the time today to artists. One must also think who their manager was, Albert Grossman, the king of defining one writer(Dylan, Robertson) and exploiting the song to the end of the world. The guy was a genius at doing this for Dylan and made Bob/himself millions, for instance who wrote "I Shall Be Released?" Dylan will even say it was Richard's song but in those days my 'people' would only represent the song under a single name(I can't directly quote it but there are 2 interviews).After the split everyone realized how much credit they did not have and it translated into nothing in royalties. Robertson finally purchased any remaining rights from the surviving members or estates throughout the 2000's to own the material 100%. Levon never saw(proper) Robbie again until he was on his death bed. Levon did not show up at the RRHOF Band induction when all others did in 94' and when Robertson spoke and claimed to have written every song in front of the crowd you could feel and see the reactions but the camera catches Clapton cringing in utter disgust and biting his tongue(I thought he would almost say something but it is Clapton the gentleman). RIP Levon, Richard, Rick

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

johnhenry3 — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 01:32:47 -0000

Wrong, RR walked with about 85% of the rights and the songs that were in part with the other guys he completely bought from them in the early 2000's outright, knowing they would give in. RR owns all The Band material now 100%

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Wallsend — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 15:09:30 -0000

If Robbie was such a bad guy, why was Levon so upset that he quit? I would have thought he would have been happy to see the back of him. Without Robbie in the band, the others would have been able to share out the royalties for all their new songs without someone stealing them.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Wallsend — Sat, 23 Nov 2013 15:05:17 -0000

I think you mean Garth Hudson. All the guys in the Band got paid heaps of money it is just that Robbie got paid more. Garth and Levon didn't use their money wisely and ended up broke. That is not Robbie's fault.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

johnhenry3 — Sat, 26 Oct 2013 20:49:24 -0000

Thanks for the great read Mr. Bolin. So many people do not get why I just have no respect for RR. I grew up going to the best basement sessions or jams on the porch which The Band(some) would have with the old Vaudeville players. Levon taking me on river walks in the morning and just him being such a beautiful person. Robertson stopped The Band for one reason and that was Railroad Robbery of all the material, same initials. He had masterminded with the companies how to get the most songwriting credit realizing the impact that the first album had. Then after working on the third record he started belittling everyone about contributions to take more control and credit. Then he eventually split leaving everyone broke and the rest is history.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Doug — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:08:57 -0000

Don't really care about who is the biggest asshole really, who gives a shit or knows a shit. Just freaking could have been nice to share some freaking money with guys you've been playin with like 17 years perhaps and really helped created some of the best music on the planet maybe. Just got a facebook message that concerns Garth Brooks trying to get help gettin his stuff out of storage since he is broke and 75. Yeah I'm real interested in all of these other assholes here trying to solve the mystery, what mystery, someone got all of the dough and the rest can go to hell. Selfish lousy business. I found this post cause i wanted to know how much dough Robertson had while Garth is trying to get a truck arranged to get his stuff back from storage and figured I would give a realistic update to this whole thing.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

MatthewBolin — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:16:41 -0000

I quit writing this series because of responses like this. If you wish to disagree with what I've written, that is one thing. I expected a series with this title and this style of writing to be controversial, and to chafe fans of the artists being written about. But to attack me personally and call me nasty things because your opinions don't match mine, well, that's unfair.

As to being the "definitive arbiter" on the subject, well, I simply have never claimed to be, so I don't know why you state that. In fact, I've gone back over time and edited my articles in order to fall more in line with the facts that have arisen over the years that have changed my perception of events.

For instance, I remember that it was thought at the time of the RRHOF induction that Robertson had strong-armed the masters of ceremony into not letting Helm appear. That does not seem to have been the case. I have changed my wording since I first wrote down that information (it now says "it seemed" instead of declaring that he wouldn't let Helm play), but must reiterate that I have read newspaper articles that stated that a reason given behind Levon not appearing were terms that Robbie wanted for a "reunion" to occur that Helm refused to meet. I can not give you time and date on when or where I read this. Only that I did research this, and found information to that regards in a pdf retrieved from Google News.

Regarding "passing on innuendo" and "prov[ing] the points", again I do not have a source right in front of me for every line I wrote four years ago, but the largest leaps I have ever done was to draw what seemed logical conclusions based on what others have said or written. But I have not set out to prove points: I am not a scholar, a reporter, or a biographer. And I was even less so when I first wrote the words in this piece nearly four years ago.

If you think I did a lousy job of writing, that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. But I've already stated what I think about people who feel they know my intentions from reading the first piece of mine they come across, or figure it's okay to call me an idiot because, hey, it's the internet, and internet people don't have feelings! We're all just a bunch of trolls, right?

Well....no.

I understand that people take their musical heroes and influences seriously, and it's not nice to see the concept of the heroic poked holes in, but the point of this series was not to "fan the flames". It was to point out that even if music could be argued as an amoral act, that it is created by artists who should be looked at (and often are not) as moral individuals, and that perhaps their behavior in their everyday lives may affect their work, and the quality of it. I have specifically focused on people who, in my personal opinion, have for the most part only had one really great album in their (solo) careers, and by mentioning some of the general incidents and behaviors in their lives that have led them to garner "problematic" reputations, to posit whether their outside the studio behavior has affected the quality of their work in the studio.

Again, I knew this series would be controversial when I started it, and I have started and stopped it a number of times because of personal attacks on me by fans of the artists. While calling me an "idiot" is far from the worst thing I've been referred to, I still do not think it is fair.

Okay, that's all I want to say about this. Carry on.

Re: When Good Albums Happen to Bad People: Robbie Robertson, “Robbie Robertson”

Browoowho — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:29:23 -0000

Well, whoever Matthew Bolin is, I can't see that he's the definitive arbiter of truth in these matters. He has passed on a lot of inuendo and not done to prove the points he wants to make. First I've ever heard that they blame each other for Manuel's death. Seems clear in retrospect, that touring, or not touring, Richard wasn't going to last. And everything else I've read has said it was Helm who didn't want to show at the Hall of Fame, not to mention Danko's funeral. His book made it pretty clear what an angry guy he is, which is most unfortunate given what a beautiful music maker he is.

Anyway, lousy article. Fan the flames, idiot.